tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post480788139201314434..comments2024-03-28T19:58:17.811+00:00Comments on Wargaming Miscellany: A different method of playing card activationRobert (Bob) Corderyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-38172340479044657262017-10-07T23:43:38.843+01:002017-10-07T23:43:38.843+01:00Vexed Dragon,
Thanks for your suggestion.
I have...Vexed Dragon,<br /><br />Thanks for your suggestion.<br /><br />I have looked at similar methods of randomised unit activation using numbered counters drawn from a bag, and it does work. My problem is that none of what you term 'dollar stores' (we call them 'pound shops' in the UK) in the area where I live sell poker chips ... but they do sell playing cards.<br /><br />I suppose that we end up using what is easiest for us to get quick and cheap access to.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />BobRobert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-28360292620747390732017-10-07T23:35:39.301+01:002017-10-07T23:35:39.301+01:00Instead of cards I buy a stack of poker chips from...Instead of cards I buy a stack of poker chips from a dollar store, then print a units name on a number of them based on quality put in bag and each player draws from their bag one chip then simultaneously activate their unit. for variations or events or special rules just print up another chip and toss it in. Resolves the problem of there only being a limited number of cards in a deck.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04878208173716221019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-70309473219420449352013-12-01T14:42:15.947+00:002013-12-01T14:42:15.947+00:00Sean,
I must admit that I never expected this par...Sean,<br /><br />I must admit that I never expected this particular blog entry to spark off such a useful discussion ... but I am pleased that it did.<br /><br />I have never seen - let alone used - either Bolt Action or the Too Fat Lardies rules, but if they are using something very similar then I can rest assured that it works!<br /><br />For solo wargaming, randomly activated units is - in my opinion - an absolute MUST, and as the latest play-test show, it works.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />BobRobert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-292136012739102602013-12-01T13:04:41.065+00:002013-12-01T13:04:41.065+00:00A lot of good ideas here and Pete's card site ...A lot of good ideas here and Pete's card site is useful. It struck me that this sounded a lot like the mechanisms used in Bolt Action and Too Fat Lardies suite, although I have never played either. I like the idea of randomly having units activate for solo play.Seanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15428727065347379281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-75732485329121533452013-11-29T10:16:54.824+00:002013-11-29T10:16:54.824+00:00Pete,
I hope to have a look at the card deck page...Pete,<br /><br />I hope to have a look at the card deck page later today or at some time over the weekend as it sounds like it will be a great game aid.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />BobRobert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-40999715756479890002013-11-29T10:14:02.616+00:002013-11-29T10:14:02.616+00:00Phil Dutre,
I had never heard of BATTLEMASTERS an...Phil Dutre,<br /><br />I had never heard of BATTLEMASTERS and will try to find out more information about it when I have the time.<br /><br />Funnily enough it is problems like traffic jams that I think should occur on the tabletop as it reflects the sort of 'friction of war' that happens in real battles.<br /><br />I like the card system used in MEMOIR '44 (and it's sister games) but agree that it can unduly affect a player's ability to set up a successful attack.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />Bob Robert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-38249796734546318562013-11-29T09:49:11.822+00:002013-11-29T09:49:11.822+00:00I've tweaked the card deck page. When you sele...I've tweaked the <a href="http://www.cottonreeltank.org/cafelunar/gamecabinet/gridgame/cardeckmk2/index.htm" rel="nofollow">card deck page</a>. When you select a card it automatically goes on top of all the others. Hopefully this is a more natural behaviour and will make the page easier to use.Petehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04022111026875490816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-81099476649348706512013-11-29T09:25:16.044+00:002013-11-29T09:25:16.044+00:00Assigning units to specific cards is very much lik...Assigning units to specific cards is very much like the game Battlemasters (MB/GW), from the nineties.<br /><br />In my gaming group, we have experimented with such a setup, but abandoned it. The problem is indeed that traffic jams will occur (at least, if no unit interpenetration during movement is allowed). This is not a problem in open field battles, but when i.e. a force has to cross a bridge, it did lead to quite some frustrations with several missed turns if the lead unit did not get activated early enough.<br /><br />We therefore switched to systems in which the cards stated how many, but not what units to activate (cfr. Memoir44). A potential problem here is that it is difficult to keep the ratio of units activated per turn a fixed proportion to your total force. If not, it becomes very hard to fight battles with uneven forces (e.g. 3:1 attacks), since the defender will have an unfair advantage and the attacker can never exploit his 3:1 advantage. Phil Dutréhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13607941040736764291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-63027722692598571422013-11-28T23:22:50.360+00:002013-11-28T23:22:50.360+00:00Archduke Piccolo (Ion),
I have only had a quick l...Archduke Piccolo (Ion),<br /><br />I have only had a quick look at the website Pete recommended, but from what you have written it may well be the answer.<br /><br />I will try to experiment with the program tomorrow … if I get the time.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />BobRobert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-69925791332570690862013-11-28T23:20:36.118+00:002013-11-28T23:20:36.118+00:00Archduke Piccolo (Ion),
In the system used by Ian...Archduke Piccolo (Ion),<br /><br />In the system used by Ian Drury and Richard Brooks for their RED SQUARE rules it is possible for units to ‘reserve’ their activation in certain circumstances. It does work … but I think that it only works if the number of ‘reservations’ is limited in some way, otherwise things can grind to a halt with players arguing ‘<i>if you do that, then I will activate this unit that has ‘reserved’ its activation, but if you don’t then my unit will stay ‘reserved’</i>’.<br /><br />I can see the validity behind your example, but it could also be argued that sometimes units don’t do the obvious – such as fire at a unit that comes into range and then goes out of range again – because of unforeseen circumstances. For example, the inability of the Turks to hit the Australian Light Horse when the latter got closer to the Turkish trenches because they were not reminded/ordered to change the setting on their rifle sights. Would this ever happen in a conventional wargame?<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />BobRobert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-66281686257681754172013-11-28T23:11:18.850+00:002013-11-28T23:11:18.850+00:00Ross Mac,
I can see your reasoning with regard to...Ross Mac,<br /><br />I can see your reasoning with regard to pre-assigned vs. player's choice systems, but as I am initially designing this for solo use with quite small forces I think that I will stick to using pre-assigned cards for the time being. If I do take it forward into a design for face-to-face battles (there is every chance that I will do) I will probably opt for some level of player choice.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />BobRobert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-91227335420145360522013-11-28T23:07:23.564+00:002013-11-28T23:07:23.564+00:00Arthur1815,
This discussion has really taken off ...Arthur1815,<br /><br />This discussion has really taken off … and there are lots of good ideas flying about as a result!<br /><br />I also think the Archduke Piccolo’s idea for activating large formations would work rather well, especially in the sort of army-level games that you like to design. I look forward to reading about how you use the idea in a forthcoming issue of MWBG!<br /><br />I agree with you that making the activation too random is probably taking things too far, and I am going to opt for the simplest version of the concept in my forthcoming play-test … which should – with a bit of luck – take place over the next few days.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />BobRobert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-48251950020962338542013-11-28T20:53:41.179+00:002013-11-28T20:53:41.179+00:00Just one point that occurred to me in the middle o...Just one point that occurred to me in the middle of the night: is it possible (or even desirable) in your present system to 'reserve' an action.<br /><br />Example can be drawn from your game example. Suppose a fist line hillman warband (Ali Baba's Own), waiting behind its sangar for the enemy (1/8th Whisky Mac Rgt) to come within range, draws really early and finds itself with nothing to do as the enemy is not yet in range. Enemy, of course, advances into range (presumably) without drawing fire. Next turn, the ABO draws something horrible, whilst 1/8th gleefully draws low and gets to move again before incurring any incoming.<br /><br />Is this good? To be honest, I'm in two minds about it. Reserved actions will be a complication, and its lack can be justified in all sorts of ways (the ABO holding their fire, the ABO caught by surprise, or maybe in a state of unreadiness...) yet in certain circumstances, I think you might want a defending (ambush) unit to act 'out of turn'.<br /><br />What do you think?<br />Cheers,<br />Ion Archduke Piccolohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15533325665451889661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-44293976824295738402013-11-28T20:43:43.762+00:002013-11-28T20:43:43.762+00:00I looked at Pete's link, and found the thing v...I looked at Pete's link, and found the thing very simple - simpler than it looks! By way of an experiment I created a card deck by adding a single line for each: Army Corps Command, 4 Infantry and 1 Cavalry Division; 12 Infantry and 3 Cavalry Brigades, each for RED and BLUE - a total of 40 cards in the deck.<br /><br />Simple. Then I could draw them one at a time into the 'Hand' space. One thing, later cards go 'under' earlier ones, but I quickly found that arranging them from the the bottom left upwards then to the right with just the single line title showing worked fine.<br /><br />For a game of this scale, it would take a while to play through a single turn (well over half an hour at any rate). The upside of this will be each turn will be full of incident.<br /><br />Archduke Piccolohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15533325665451889661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-73946635059753917262013-11-28T19:49:52.354+00:002013-11-28T19:49:52.354+00:00A further thought on pre-assigned vs player's ...A further thought on pre-assigned vs player's choice systems. I have used both. Letting the player choose gives a degree of control without being too predictable and is a good balance. <br /><br />I have found the method whereby the card is preassigned to a unit is best for situations where command control is difficult, night fights, fighting in woods or cities, or other situations where small units are using their initiative within an over all plan, etc. I also prefer it for my 16th Century games. <br /><br />Ross Mac rmacfa@gmail.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04053555991679802013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-84369908216191830922013-11-28T19:30:28.670+00:002013-11-28T19:30:28.670+00:00Bob,
A whole variety of interesting ideas with whi...Bob,<br />A whole variety of interesting ideas with which to experiment here!<br />Archduke Piccolo's idea of applying activation to larger formations is surely the way to go for army-level games. <br />The Joker signalling the end of a turn and/or reshuffling of the pack is similar to the mechanism used in some of the Too Fat Lardies rules. The one thing that worries me about such a system is that, on occasion, a unit might go without being activated for some considerable time (this would not be so much of a problem if it automatically continued with its existing orders), which might be rather unrealistic and cause the same dissatisfaction some players feel with the Piquet rules system.<br />I think we may need to beware of making activation too random...<br />Regards, <br />Arthur arthur1815https://www.blogger.com/profile/12333670394529977263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-38987304919948583972013-11-28T17:59:53.468+00:002013-11-28T17:59:53.468+00:00John Yorio,
Your suggestion adds a very subtle tw...John Yorio,<br /><br />Your suggestion adds a very subtle twist to the mechanism. Thank you for sharing it with me and my other regular blog readers.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />BobRobert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-76478866831346581132013-11-28T17:58:25.642+00:002013-11-28T17:58:25.642+00:00Pete,
Thanks for the link. I don't usually ha...Pete,<br /><br />Thanks for the link. I don't usually have a computer near to my wargames table, but the electronic card deck program you have bought to my attention might make it a very good idea to do so.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />BobRobert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-20466511630698905382013-11-28T17:55:22.470+00:002013-11-28T17:55:22.470+00:00Ross Mac,
I like the concept of using the Joker t...Ross Mac,<br /><br />I like the concept of using the Joker to trigger some sort of random event that will affect the next unit that is activated. That could really spoil someone's best laid plans.<br /><br />I would assume that the General was a unit (and thus entitled to a separate activation for themselves and/or any unit they are co-located with) in the proposed system. I think that it is an innovation I will not want to lose.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />BobRobert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-49188400760039116182013-11-28T17:49:55.314+00:002013-11-28T17:49:55.314+00:00Bill,
I like the idea that the players choose whi...Bill,<br /><br />I like the idea that the players choose which card is allocated to which unit. That gives players a degree of decision making that would otherwise be missing.<br /><br />A neat solution to the problem.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />BobRobert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-68370464008768304372013-11-28T17:47:05.423+00:002013-11-28T17:47:05.423+00:00Arthur,
In the past I have used something similar...Arthur,<br /><br />In the past I have used something similar in large face-to-face games and it worked very well indeed. I am not sure how well it would work with a smaller and/or solo battle, although it would appear that this method of activation is something that Archduke Piccolo may use if his nineteenth century project moves out of its current state of suspended animation.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />BobRobert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-18929549258623574402013-11-28T17:46:34.558+00:002013-11-28T17:46:34.558+00:00to tack on to Ross Mac's suggestion, the first...to tack on to Ross Mac's suggestion, the first Joker could be attached to a random event, while the 2nd would signify the end of the turn/re-shuffle.<br /><br />this is a method I use to some success in a variety of solo situations.John Yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16465161620134394060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-2306018713639935692013-11-28T17:40:31.853+00:002013-11-28T17:40:31.853+00:00Phf,
That was an option that I thought about, but...Phf,<br /><br />That was an option that I thought about, but decided not to include at this particular moment.<br /><br />Nonetheless it is a good idea, and one that I will file away for possible use in the future.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />BobRobert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-34574636681288587612013-11-28T17:38:57.423+00:002013-11-28T17:38:57.423+00:00Peter Douglas,
It may well be that it was somethi...Peter Douglas,<br /><br />It may well be that it was something that I read on Ross Mac's blog (but had forgoptten that I had read) that came to mind when I started to put my ideas down on paper.<br /><br />I suspect that when using this sort of system road columns end up being a bit like the M25; stop, start, bunched up traffic, and spread-out traffic ... almost all happening at the same time in different parts of the column.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />BobRobert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-81462588030793368062013-11-28T17:33:32.820+00:002013-11-28T17:33:32.820+00:00Archduke Piccolo (Ion),
The recent blog entries d...Archduke Piccolo (Ion),<br /><br />The recent blog entries do seem to have sparked off quite a lot of discussion, and I am very pleased to read that you are finding it so!<br /><br />Like all systems, the playing card activation system has its limitations. One of them is the number of units you can have. As there are only 13 cards in each suit, that would seem to be the practical limit. (Interestingly 12 is the maximum number of units usually fielded in DBx and HOTT.)<br /><br />(As an aside, I took part in one of Phil Barker's play-test of 'Horse, Foot Guns' … much to his despair. I managed to get my Prussian troops charged by a French cavalry unit … which went though my front line troops, my gun line, and into the HQ area, routing everything in their path. Phil said that I had set back military thinking by decades!)<br /><br />Looking at the size of your armies it would seem to make sense to link the stands/units together to create brigades and to activate them (and each element in the divisional and corps assets) with a separate card for each. Other than producing a separate card for each unit – which would create very large pack of cards and which would also slow the game down – I cannot see a practical way forward.<br /><br />Something to think about over the coming weeks and months.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />BobRobert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.com