tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post2921910146310548468..comments2024-03-28T10:09:10.067+00:00Comments on Wargaming Miscellany: Tabletopping: The new, more acceptable term for wargaming?Robert (Bob) Corderyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-3273075258291699022019-01-03T22:53:46.371+00:002019-01-03T22:53:46.371+00:00Todd,
You may well be right that the use of '...Todd,<br /><br />You may well be right that the use of 'tabletopping' has gained currency to differentiate it from computer games.<br /><br />I think that not growing up helps to keep one young. I'm 68 - going on 69 - and playing with toy soldiers keeps my mind very active, my imaginative juices flowing, and has gained me loads of friends. What's not to like?<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />BobRobert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-13230398045977500752019-01-03T22:34:31.709+00:002019-01-03T22:34:31.709+00:00Hi Bob, I wonder whether the use of "tabletop...Hi Bob, I wonder whether the use of "tabletop" is just a contrast to the more prevalent computer games. I suspect if you mentioned "wargaming" to many people they would think of computer games before toy soldier, board or other tabletop games.<br />On the general point, "wargaming" is clearly an adequate catch-all term, but, like you, I also like to refer to it as "playing with toy soldiers". I am old enough now that my mother has come to terms with the fact I am never growing up.Toddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06111346333989064413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-90474416993339973152018-12-29T19:29:19.001+00:002018-12-29T19:29:19.001+00:00Geordie an Exiled FoG,
And there's me thinkin...Geordie an Exiled FoG,<br /><br />And there's me thinking that your wife could have been suggesting that the WI might produce a calendar of naked wargamers for charity!<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />BobRobert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-71207323880530529762018-12-29T17:07:05.994+00:002018-12-29T17:07:05.994+00:00The Women's Institute (WI) gave Tony Blair a h...The Women's Institute (WI) gave Tony Blair a hard time ;)Geordie an Exiled FoGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01002743056274635657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-6007425074283221892018-12-29T09:30:42.542+00:002018-12-29T09:30:42.542+00:00Fitz-Badger,
The consensus seems to be that '...Fitz-Badger,<br /><br />The consensus seems to be that 'tabletopping' describes the family of games to which wargaming (in all its variants) belongs.<br /><br />As I am not great shakes as a painter, I tend to play-down that aspect of the hobby, although I do admit in conversation to playing with painted toy soldiers ... and leave it up to my listeners to decide quite what that means.<br /><br />I think that quite a few wargamers enjoy the storytelling aspect of what they do, and I am firmly in that camp when it comes to recreational wargames. I like to know a bit about the back-story to the events that unfold, and if possible to give names to the main characters who take part. To me, 'General Reynard's Division' sound much more interesting than 'the 1st Infantry Division' when writing up a battle report.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />BobRobert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-62897814184016512162018-12-29T09:20:28.338+00:002018-12-29T09:20:28.338+00:00Jeremy Ramsey,
You've obviously had a much mo...Jeremy Ramsey,<br /><br />You've obviously had a much more exotic life than I have! :^)<br /><br />I'd not thought about it before your comment, but one advantage of the 'greying' of the hobby is the '<i>so what?</i>' attitude that tends to come with age.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />Bob<br /><br />PS. Your comment reminded me of a joke I heard many years ago. A doctor was talking to an old lady and asked if she'd ever been bedridden. She replied, '<i>Many times, young man ... and on the table as well when I was younger and fitter</i>!'Robert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-62493095928361404392018-12-29T04:35:52.054+00:002018-12-29T04:35:52.054+00:00I have yet to encounter "tabletopping" a...I have yet to encounter "tabletopping" as a verb. But I think tabletop games is a good umbrella term for gaming with miniatures, board games, card games, and rpgs. <br /><br />I paint a lot of miniatures that are not soldiers, which sometimes makes an explanation of what I do take more than a few words. Most people have heard of toy soldiers, but if I mention that I paint miniatures some people think of small paintings, others think of something more along the lines of porcelain figurines or small dollhouse dolls or the like. Some people have heard of Dungeons and Dragons, so sometimes I mention that I paint figures like the ones some people use for D&D.<br /><br />I play games with miniatures, but they aren't all wargames or even battlegames or skirmishes (in the military sense). Some are adventures or are more story driven, although there is often some sort of combat involved. So maybe adventure gaming and/or story gaming comes closer to the mark for me; although those terms may be less familiar.Fitz-Badgerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15510866929782142007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-72036995818353996502018-12-29T00:00:10.387+00:002018-12-29T00:00:10.387+00:00I thought "tabletopping" involved dodgy ...I thought "tabletopping" involved dodgy velour seating, a G-string and folded bank notes? Thankfully, a significant percentage of those involved in wargaming are of a gender, age and disposition to not give a toss if someone considers the name (or the hobby) inappropriate.Jeremy Ramseyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12250118143994161913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-20390776620344976502018-12-28T21:06:22.352+00:002018-12-28T21:06:22.352+00:00Alastair,
This has been an interesting dicussion,...Alastair,<br /><br />This has been an interesting dicussion, both here and on the Wargame Developments Facebook page.<br /><br />The general consensus seems to be that whatever we call what we do, we all enjoy doing it ... and that is - in the end - the most important thing.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />BobRobert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-74340173146387903952018-12-28T20:59:07.831+00:002018-12-28T20:59:07.831+00:00Thomas Branstetter,
I had no idea that the term &...Thomas Branstetter,<br /><br />I had no idea that the term 'wargaming' was not used in German-speaking countries, although I can see why it isn't.<br /><br />As long as we enjoy what we do, the name or names we call it by is more or less irrelevant to us ... but words have a power of their own, and in certain circumstances using the right or wrong term could influence the reaction of others to what we do.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />BobRobert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-71960142477524317042018-12-28T20:49:06.455+00:002018-12-28T20:49:06.455+00:00Interesting points. I don't particularly mind...Interesting points. I don't particularly mind 'wargaming' as a term. I often say I play with toy soldiers (my wife and son refer to it as being a nerd which is probably fair enough 😀)<br /><br />I like Tabletop gaming though as a catch all term...I play lots of boardgames as well, not all of which are wargamey, so I guess this would encompass things like Settlers etc.alastairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15012644168758721189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-33413355260550568692018-12-28T20:41:05.312+00:002018-12-28T20:41:05.312+00:00Archduke Piccolo,
Thank you for your very interes...Archduke Piccolo,<br /><br />Thank you for your very interesting and considered contribution to this discussion. For my part, wargaming has helped me to see war as the absolute and final means by which one country should impose its national will on another, and that it should never be entered into lightly and without all the alternatives being fully exhausted first.<br /><br />'Story gaming' is a good description of my wargaming as well, and is particularly relevant when applied to many Matrix Games.<br /><br />You are right to remind us about H.G.Wells' wise words, which I quoted in toto not so long ago.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />BobRobert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-29287049977614847312018-12-28T20:25:22.554+00:002018-12-28T20:25:22.554+00:00Geordie an Exiled FOG,
She thought that you were ...Geordie an Exiled FOG,<br /><br />She thought that you were not good enough to pose for page 3 of Wargames Illustrated? You'll just have to prove her wrong!<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />BobRobert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-56545303701511390282018-12-28T20:24:57.516+00:002018-12-28T20:24:57.516+00:00Interestingly, in German speaking countries, what ...Interestingly, in German speaking countries, what is known as "miniature wargaming" in the UK is called "tabletop" (using the english term). This has probably to do with the problematic cultural status of war related stuff, especially as a recreational enterprise.<br /><br />To be honest, I don't think it is that important how the thing is called... wargaming, adventure gaming, figure gaming, tabletop - there are good reasons for all of those term and I tend to use most of them, depending on the context and who I'm talking to.Thomas Brandstetterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16887142740759504866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-62782099724361551612018-12-28T20:21:44.697+00:002018-12-28T20:21:44.697+00:00Stephen Briddon,
So do I.
All the best,
BobStephen Briddon,<br /><br />So do I.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />BobRobert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-63661379826715216642018-12-28T20:20:59.418+00:002018-12-28T20:20:59.418+00:00Rick Krebs,
'Simulation' always sounded a...Rick Krebs,<br /><br />'Simulation' always sounded a bit pompous to me, although I did use it for a time to describe the activities at COW so that we could book the venue and avoid paying VAT. (By describing it as a Conflict Simulation Design Course, it became educational and was zero-rated.)<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />BobRobert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-32151948704205285252018-12-28T20:18:26.088+00:002018-12-28T20:18:26.088+00:00An interesting discussion. I was especially inter...An interesting discussion. I was especially interested in the epithet 'war-mongerer' by one of your respondents. I don't think that expression is fair. Perhaps a few of us are. But there will be not a few of us who are rather more pacific by nature. I consider myself something of a pacifist - who just happens to have an interest in war as conflict, and as a narrative - that is to say: War as Story. Perhaps that is why I tend to collect Imagi-Nations.<br /><br />And there we might have a whole different appellation: 'Story Gaming'. It suits my approach to the hobby, at any rate! <br /><br />As far as real war is concerned, I am almost wholly in agreement with the closing comments H.G. Wells made to his 'Little Wars'. As a historian, I long ago reached the view that, as an instrument of policy, War outlived its usefulness sometime between 1789 and 1815. These days, from what we have seen in the Middle East and North Africa, I find it hard to see war as having anything to do with policy at all.Archduke Piccolohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15533325665451889661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-87568117615390803932018-12-28T20:15:14.446+00:002018-12-28T20:15:14.446+00:00Ashley,
I'm not sure if the use of 'table...Ashley,<br /><br />I'm not sure if the use of 'tabletopping' is an evolution in the nomenclature; I rather think that it is being used by people who want to avoid the words 'war' and 'game'. As I have stated, I'm going to stick with 'wargaming' because I'm just too old to change!<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />Bob<br /><br />PS. Your friend is very perceptive!Robert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-46168143573705671002018-12-28T19:48:06.431+00:002018-12-28T19:48:06.431+00:00I once made the mistake of saying to my wife I was...I once made the mistake of saying to my wife I was bored with the telly and was off to do some modelling. "Not posing for the still life at the WI I hope" she retorted, while sipping rd wine and falling off her chair in laughter! .. ("15 - Love" or was that game set and match)Geordie an Exiled FoGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01002743056274635657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-88942448760919943872018-12-28T18:22:22.126+00:002018-12-28T18:22:22.126+00:00I play with toy soldiers myself.I play with toy soldiers myself.Steve8https://www.blogger.com/profile/14084781288683778590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-63144158816695508142018-12-28T18:14:43.724+00:002018-12-28T18:14:43.724+00:00I remember the "simulation" phase of the...I remember the "simulation" phase of the hobby. And, I take great pride in being referred to as a "gamer". Rick Krebshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02455824039524230156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-18109247086593684752018-12-28T16:35:27.401+00:002018-12-28T16:35:27.401+00:00If one is being generous one could say that the no...If one is being generous one could say that the nomenclature is evolving. After all language and the meaning of words changes over time. However, the crotchety side of me this is a manifestation of political correctness and people telling me what I can a=or can't do that is non of their business.<br /><br />OTOH, I once described my miniatures as toy soldiers to one of my friends who promptly announced that what I did was far and above playing with toy soldiers. Ashleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13666947574653683678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-10186829816596544672018-12-28T15:45:04.117+00:002018-12-28T15:45:04.117+00:00Dick Bryant,
That's as good a name as most fo...Dick Bryant,<br /><br />That's as good a name as most for what we do, especially as it encompasses a wider range of activities within the tabletop gaming hobby.<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />BobRobert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-68700772209278903562018-12-28T15:43:05.198+00:002018-12-28T15:43:05.198+00:00Ross Mac,
I like the definition of a skirmish as ...Ross Mac,<br /><br />I like the definition of a skirmish as '<i>a fight between a small number of soldiers that is usually short and not planned, and happens away from the main area of fighting in a war</i>.'<br /><br />All the best,<br /><br />BobRobert (Bob) Corderyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109130990434792266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6933470253715910366.post-55072762307229432962018-12-28T14:44:49.773+00:002018-12-28T14:44:49.773+00:00I find the modern hobby meaning of "skirmish&...I find the modern hobby meaning of "skirmish" "interesting" (in a slightly disapproving sense). <br /><br />It seems to me that in 18/19thC military usage a skirmish was a minor affair with no strategic importance but often involving hundreds, sometimes thousands of men. Now in miniature tabletop war games it seems to mean nothing bigger than a barroom brawl. <br /><br />I'd go with Cambridge on this one: "a fight between armed forces". <br />Ross Mac rmacfa@gmail.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04053555991679802013noreply@blogger.com