As my regular blog readers will know, recently I’ve become interested in model railways. I’ve always wanted to create one, and since the pandemic and my cancer diagnosis I decided to build one. As a result, I have been buying the odd model railway magazine and subscribing to several YouTube channels.
Interestingly, there has been quite a bit of discussion within the model railway fraternity about the greying of the community (does this sound familiar?) and during this last week this trend has had a tangible effect.
Firstly, Hattons – one of the largest if not the largest retailers serving the hobby – has decided to close down after 70 years. As the company also undertakes the manufacture of top end model railway locomotives and rolling stock, this is a very significant event.
Secondly, the Warley Model Railway Club has decided not to run its annual show again. This was held at the Birmingham NEC, was the largest such show in the country, and has being going for well over twenty years.
So, in a single week, the UK railway modelling hobby – which is substantially bigger than wargaming – has seen the demise of a major retailer/manufacturer and the discontinuation of the biggest annual hobby show. That is akin to someone like the Perry twins or Peter Pig shutting up shop and South London Warlords announcing that they are cancelling further Salutes, all in the space of five days.
It certainly makes you think, doesn’t it? How long will it be before wargaming sees something similar?
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Similar comments used to be frequently made in my main hobby, chess, but since the covid crisis we've been overrun with pesky juniors!
ReplyDeleteTim Stanton,
DeleteIt’s be a topic that gets discussed within wargaming every couple of years. I was just surprised that it was also discussed in other hobbies.
All the best,
Bob
Bob -
ReplyDeleteOne wonders if this sort of thing is due to a more general social demographic: declining real incomes, and narrowing of available living space - especially, perhaps, living space one can call one's own. I don't imagine things will get any better for a good while to come.
Perhaps the war gaming gig will last a little longer - a couple of years maybe - before a discernably similar trend becomes apparent...
Tell you what, though. Your Portable Wargames ideas have gone a long way to bringing my armies to battle! Space had been a real consideration, until my own Big Battles for Small Tables idea to some extent, but your PW went a lot further to getting my kit onto the table.
Cheers,
Ion
Archduke Piccolo (Ion),
DeleteI suspect that you might well be right. There seem to be fewer and fewer people in the UK who have the income and/or space for hobbies like model railways and wargaming, and those that have tend to be in the upper age ranges.
PW was a result of my realisation that the amount of space that I had available for wargaming was not likely to get any bigger as I got older. It’s certainly going to be the basis of my wargaming for the foreseeable future.
All the best,
Bob
Sad news about Hattons Bob, I used to buy most of my railway stuff from there as prices were hard to beat. That was probably 30 odd years ago! Like you I retain an interest in railway modelling and am sorely tempted to build another small branch line terminus, shelf layout I think is the modern term :) Big overlap in the two hobbies of course. YouTube tutorials are one thing we did not have back then and I have been watching wiring videos for track and point motors etc to refresh my memory! I just know I will succumb in the near future.
ReplyDeleteAll the best,
Lee.
‘Lee,
DeleteI’ve never bought anything from Hattons, but I do know that they are highly respected within railway modelling.
I’ve found the videos on the Budget Model Railways YouTube channel very useful, especially as they do concentrate on modelling small railway layouts in both OO and N gauges. I would recommend the series on his ‘Market Town’ OO-gauge layout which I think was designed to fit on a shelf.
All the best,
Bob
There have been similar discussions on this subject for years. We are still here. Youngsters do have an interest, mainly through the Thomas industry and cartoons like Chuggington, but these don't seem to follow through to 'proper' model railways. Perhaps cost is a major factor, I thought of buying some of the new Wisbech and Upwell coaches but at £79 a pop I'll not be bothering; and I'm not pestering a parent for them! Simple locomotives in three figure prices, and all the tecnological developements, add to the difficulties.
ReplyDeleteJoppy,
DeleteI must admit that when I looked around for stuff to buy for my current model railway project, I was staggered at the prices some manufacturers charged. As a result, I looked at buying online using eBay. It was a cheaper option … but not a lot cheaper. It’s no longer a cheap hobby for youngsters and haas definitely become one for middle-aged people with a reasonable amount of disposable income.
All the best,
Bob
Bob,
ReplyDeleteWhilst it is sad that Hattons is closing, there have been several wargame figure manufacturers - Hinton Hunt and Hinchcliffe, for example - that were at one time regarded as leading hobby firms and then closed, but hobby wargaming has survived and so, I believe, will railway modelling.
As for shows, many wargamers - myself included nowadays - rarely or never attend them, but just pursue their hobby in their own way; the same could well be true of railway modellers.
I tend to agree with Archduke Piccolo and think there will be a trend towards smaller games - such as PW for stylised portrayals of large battles, and 'skirmish' level encounters - that do not need such large spaces, massive investment in time and money to create armies and terrain. The 'traditional' demonstration show games were more a display of modelling skills than playable wargames most people could ever hope to put on at home.
Best wishes, Arthur
Arthur1815 (Arthur),
DeleteMy blog post was a reaction to the shock of Hattons announcing its closure in the same week as the decision by the Warley Model Railway Club to stop holding their annual show. You are right to point out that figure manufacturers that were around in the 1970s and 1980s have disappeared and been replaced by others and that wargame shows no longer dominate the hobby in the way that they did. In several ways wargaming has evolved to meet the changing demands of everyday life, and it will no doubt survive its apparent ‘greying’ … and I hope the PW has been part of this.
All the best,
Bob
BOB,
ReplyDeleteHattons- I've purchased from them many times over the years and found them to be most reliable. Yes, I've read a few articles about the 'Greying of the Hobby' - seems the youngsters are not so much into model making of any kind- bit different to our youth starting off with AIRFIX Kits and AIRFIX Plastic Figures. Cheers. KEV.
Kev Robertson (Kev),
DeleteI didn’t realise that Hattons had an international reputation!
I suspect that the relative cost of model kits, model railways etc., has risen a lot since our childhood … and the modern alternative forms of entertainment require less effort on the part of the participants and give more immediate gratification.
All the best,
Bob
The loss of Hattons is a blow, to hobby confidence if nothing else. If their European market was still as profitable as it was pre-Brexit, then that MAY have the difference to staying a little longer, but I see the same in the boardgame industry, it is presently the cost of shipping and its arrangement that is a stress point.
ReplyDeleteOne can only hope that their loss becomes of help to Hornby, rather than seeing two UK giants leaving the market - if one can be saved, that may be the new reality.
When I visit WH Smiths (UK newsagent) for wargame mags, I never see young people buying rail or wargaming mags, perhaps they are happier being serviced by the internet, but the loss of high street magazines is just another sign of stress on the hobby scene.
It’s not just about new blood. I have much of what I need and money gets tighter so even as someone already bitten by the hobby bug, my spending levels are reducing at the moment.
Perhaps hobbies may return to a collection of being serviced by cottage industries, plus a few main players.
Norm,
DeleteI must admit that I hadn’t factored in the impact of Brexit on businesses like Hattons … but what you state in your comment makes sense.
Hornby has only relatively recently emerged from a period of uncertainty, and even now I’m not sure that its future could be described as secure. Hopefully it will not find itself experiencing problems again.
Interestingly, my wife was commenting on the general absence of sewing - as opposed to crafting, knitting, and crocheting - magazines in WHSmiths. These seem to have experienced a significant upturn since the pandemic whereas sewing hasn’t, even with TV programmes such as the Great British Sewing Bee being produced.
I am extremely lucky to have retired when I did. Our house is paid for, our pensions are index-linked, and our daily needs are modest. I find that my hobbies are not too expensive and I have a pile of kits and figures that I have yet to make and paint.
I am so old that I can remember when wargaming had two B&W magazines (WARGAMER’S NEWSLETTER and MINIATURE WARFARE) and a few, small figure manufacturers. The ‘big boys’ were Minifigs, Hinchcliffe, and Hinton Hunt … and they were quite small operations by modern standards,
All the best,
Bob
Regarding the greying of wargaming (I know nothing of the railway hobby), it's worth looking at the demographics provided by the Wargames, Soldiers and Strategy annual survey. This is only a snapshot but gives us a sample bigger than looking around at the next show we visit. International too. While this does confirm a slow greying, especially in historical gaming, it shows there are still younger gamers coming through, especially from the Sci-Fi fantasy end. Given that it also shows a lot of people are not purists in either historical or fantasy but dabble in both, there is some hope of a continuing yet evolving hobby.
ReplyDeleteAnthony Climpson,
DeleteThat is very reassuring. Funnily enough, as I age I seem to be enjoying less rigidly historical wargaming. As I wrote in my recent blog post, I see my future wargaming being centred around late nineteenth century imagi-nations … with the possibility of a tiny bit of steam punk thrown in for good measure.
All the best,
Bob
I don't know about elsewhere, but trains are not as visible nor as frequently used for travelling with the exception of short daily commutes in a few of the larger cities. Most of the remaining long distance rails are used for shipping oil, cars and large items and tend to avoid well populated areas or move at night. Trailer trucks and airplanes have taken most of the load and are ubiquitous.
ReplyDeleteI feel lucky to have ridden overnight as a child with my family to visit relatives, and gone by rail in my late teens when on leave, coast to coast in Canada and through 6 countries in Europe.
Ross Mac,
DeleteIn the UK the railways are undergoing a bit of a revival, with major railway infrastructure projects being undertaken to improve commuter, suburban, and intercity connections. They are not all going without a hitch or two, but the number of people using the railways is on the rise. When I moved to southeast London in 1975, Woolwich had a single mainline railway station. It now has a DLR (Docklands Light Railway) and Elizabeth (originally Crossrail) stations.
My longest rail journey was an overnight sleeper from London to St Jean de Luz in southwestern France and back via Paris. I was 18 and went camping for a week with some friends, and my abiding memory of the whole experience was a very stuffy railway compartment that we had to share with a French family who tried to lock us out (we had to get the train conductor to unlock the door) and the incessant rain that turned the campsite into a quagmire!
All the best,
Bob
I can't speak for the train hobby, but I suspect another thing at work is the decentralization of retail with the rise of things like 3D printing, Etsy, and other direct marketing schemes made possible by social media. Anyone can "open" a store online, so to speak, particularly in the hobby spheres. A sad trend in general that is killing off the paradigm that we all grew up with--the local hobby store, train store, game store...
ReplyDeleteEd M,
DeleteThat is another factor that I had not taken into account. I do know that a lot of wargame retailers rely on their online sales as their main income stream, and use shows more as a 'come and see what we are planning to do next' exercise than as a place to sell loads of stuff.
The closure of the hobby shops is a very unfortunate and growing tend. Ten years ago there were at least five hobby shops within five miles of my house: now there is only one, and that is a branch of Hobbycraft that, other than paint, a few kits, some flock, glue etc., doesn't stock much that is use to a wargamer or railway modeller. Even the branch of Games Workshop that used to be at the huge Bluewater shopping mall shut some years ago when that company went through a period of financial upheaval.
All the best,
Bob
Hi Bob,
ReplyDeleteArticle in today's Guardian (online) on this very subject!
Steve
Steve,
DeleteThanks for the heads up. I’ve now read the article and it makes an interesting comparison with what I wrote and the comments my blog post generated.
All the best,
Bob
I think miniature wargaming is somewhat better fitted to endure the shock. We need less space, and we're easier to stow when not in use. But I'd expect a slow decline over the next decade, and a sharper decline in historical miniatures--sharpest of all in horse & musket, which just doesn't look like a GW product.
ReplyDeleteRobert Piepenbrink,
DeleteThat’s an interesting perspective on the situation.
I’ve been using Kato Unitrack for my model railway, which is a Japanese model railway system that is designed to be packed away between uses. I suspect that it was designed to be like that as the majority of Japanese tend not to have large homes and cannot have permanent model railway layouts.
As a predominantly horse & musket/rifle wargamer I hope that you’re wrong and it won’t become a declining genre within the hobby. 😉
All the best,
Bob
What I have noticed is that one particular wargaming genre and company does not seem to have had so much 'greying'. It always had a young component and that is fantasy and SF, especially via Games Workshop. it even has a tie-in movie - Ultra-Marine. What is interesting is it has on-line and also tabletop versions.
ReplyDeleteQuantrilltoy,
DeleteVery true … and perhaps something that the ‘mainstream’ historical wargamers could learn from.
Interestingly, the one time that I took part in a WH40K game (it was set up by one of my students) I realised that the rules were very similar to those that I used in the late 1960s for WW2 battles: very Donald Featherstone/Lionel Tarr in style.
All the best,
Bob
Last year I watched a series on a toy and collectables auction house in the North East, and quite often they would have entire railway collections (and boats etc) being sold off for a song as people no longer had the space, the time talk less of interest for big layouts. The same could be said to be true for wargamers based upon the WS&S annual survey. Younger gamers (in their 30's) tend to have what I would call GW sized forces which they've grown up with, so say a Platoon of Company size in WWII. Few models, not much space required and quick games, which fits in well with their lifestyles and something I can relate too when I was a parent at that age. Then of course there is the competition for online games, video games etc that need no space or set up. Our hobby is doing well but I'm sure if will evolve a lot over the next decade or so.
ReplyDeleteSteve J.,
DeleteBased on your comment, I think that I ought to be looking at a few local auctions for my model railway stuff!
I now have over a thousand followers on the PW Facebook page, and new members are joining every day. I suspect that like Neil Thomas’s and the DBA/HOTT stable of rules , PW fills a niche in the wargaming hobby that may well grow in the future.
All the best,
Bob
Interestingly a new (very interesting in itself) Gaming shop opened last year over here in the province (Clare Gaming Ballyclare N.Ireland) with a historical wargaming group using its facilities. There is a large group of youth playing D&D and WH along with other fantasy/sci-fi stuff. The historical chaps have seen a good deal of interest generated from younger bunch (attracted to Bolt Action/Chain of Cmd) and surprisingly they are attracted by cheaper prices of historical figures compared to the GW kit. Warlord/Perry boxes of plastics certainly less pricey than much of GW ranges.
ReplyDeleteRailway modelling never big here (like our rail system) and certainly I know of no-one now that has a set up/display (doubtless there are some) and been years since I saw any local shows. We used to have one in Bangor Co Down which I frequented to buy buildings and scenery for wargaming purposes. I did dabble with model railways when a callow youth but wargaming took over.
Sgt Steiner,
DeleteNow that is an interesting development, and one that is very encouraging for those of us who would like to see historical wargaming have a sustainable future.
Funnily enough, modelling Irish railways - which were built to a variety of different gauges - is a niche part of the model railway hobby. Some were built to 5’ 3” gauge, some to standard gauge, and many small ones to 3’ gauge. As a result, almost everything would have to be specially made by a modeller, which would put many of them off.
All the best,
Bob
Some good points there. One trend in wargaming in the last couple of decades is towards a paired back offer. Smaller games needing less figures and smaller spaces to gain a foothold. In ancients, for example, think DBA or ADLG. Generally, think One Hour Wargames or Portable Wargame. WWII has several "big skirmish" approaches like Bolt Action. When I was a young gamer getting in ancients, you needed to buy a heck of a lot of figures to get a viable game, double that if you had no opponent. Now you can put together a pair of forces for much less. You can grow your collection incrementally fairly easily (add options, a new opposing army, a new sub period). And, if you want to get into the display scene (which does have a lot of similarity to those display rail layouts) you can. Tabletop wargaming has perhaps been adapting and changing in a low key way which will hopefully guarantee the future.
ReplyDeleteAnthony Climpson,
DeleteI agree with everything that you state in your comment: going small is definitely a trend in the hobby.
Incidentally, I know of a growing number of wargamers who have been building up armies using 54mm figures and fighting wargames on the floor using a modernised version of HGWells’s rules. Because there are loads of cheap plastic 54mm figures out there, you can build up a Little Wars army in 54mm for the price of a couple of dozen Foundry or GW figures.
All the best,
Bob
Dear Bob,
ReplyDeleteA slightly belated comment which turned out far too long even after I’d removed quite a bit that I decided lacked sufficient relevance.
An interesting and informative posting (I hadn’t heard about Warley, though Hatton’s have been sending me closing down sale emails for the last couple of weeks). You’ve clearly generated a lot of interest and elicited some very perceptive comments. However, there seems to be a paucity of real data about the demographics of railway modellers so to some extent we are all making – hopefully well-informed – guesses as to what is going on.
My take is that, many years ago, there was a limited range of toys for boys in the UK. You could spend your pocket money on some 54mm plastic model soldiers, or Dinky toys or Airfix kits and come Christmas there were Meccano sets and Model Trains. (This is, of course, a gross oversimplification, but I hope not too far from the truth). It was also the time that train spotting was incredibly popular (though it was not my thing: all that was on view at my local station was an endless stream of EMUs carrying commuters – pretty boring). So, there were a lot of baby boomer boys with train sets and, even though most lost interest in the face of piles of homework and girls, nostalgia has brought many back into the fold as they got older, especially once their kids had left home leaving more space and possibly more money. Many are now retired meaning more time to model. There are also a lot of well off “final salary” pensioners who can afford to spend freely on their hobby, which they really need to do as technological advances and the pressure from older and wealthier modellers has given us much more accurate, detailed and very expensive RTR models.
It is therefore natural that there is a concentration of grey beards amongst railway modellers and that the many changes in society – in particular the huge expansion in the kinds of entertainment available – have hit recruitment hard. Just having the kids playing with grandad’s model railway is not going to produce enough enthusiasts to replace the oldsters. It also doesn’t really help that – save for those working on micro layouts – the years required to complete a home model to current standards and the space and money required will put many off.
The situation for wargames is – I hope – different. I doubt that wargames as a whole have ever been as popular as is currently the case. However, most of these gamers are not playing historical games with model soldiers but are on their PCs and consols playing the likes of “World of Warships” or “Call of Duty” and are more likely to switch to something like “Baldur's Gate 3” than start painting model soldiers. Other than first getting people interested in the history – which schools should be doing, but I suspect may are not - how you recruit people to the historical table top model soldiers side of the hobby? I’ve no idea, though converting players of fantasy games and using rules that don't require many figures to be painted will help.
I was amused by your comment about the rules used for WH40K as, when my kids were young and wanted me to play this with them, I actually found that using British Napoleonic infantry tactics for my marines - basicall the thin red line - often brought me close to victory (even though I was mostly trying to lose),
Mike
Mike Hall,
DeleteIt might be slightly a belated comment … but it was well worth the wait!
I think that you have summarised the situation very well indeed. I don’t think that anyone involved in model railwaying conducts an annual survey like WSS does, but looking at videos of both wargame and model railway shows indicates that they are attended by a similar demographic.
I used to teach History in a large secondary school but moved over to IT when the National Curriculum was brought it. In my opinion it was so fundamentally poorly constructed in order to convey a covert political message that I couldn’t stomach teaching it.
Thank you very much for your excellent contribution to the debate I started.
All the best,
Bob
Mike I wholeheartedly agree with you here:
Delete“ Many are now retired meaning more time to model. There are also a lot of well off “final salary” pensioners who can afford to spend freely on their hobby, which they really need to do as technological advances and the pressure from older and wealthier modellers has given us much more accurate, detailed and very expensive RTR models.”
Without applying any judgement to the above, one of the results of it are the pressures on (family) time and finances that have grown. Also most dads I know are significantly more involved in the day to day activities of the family/kids than ours were. As an odd duck at-home-dad I’m racing most of the time keeping the family moving in all the right directions the kids and my wife need. Most folks are dual incomes - so a wife who manages life and a dad who comes home, eats and then “relaxes” is a fantasy in the modern day (mostly). The need for kids to have activities and success in them starts very early now - and is both overwhelming and a nuisance. (Personally I think that’s something my generation screwed up- we turned little league baseball or soccer/football, dance etc into a full-time profession, which we then expect to support a full time salary to organize and run.)
In essence - the time pressures alone are enough to wreak havoc on hobby time and/or gathering to do/or watch a hobby.
Orionstars,
DeleteThe only thing that I slightly disagree with in your comment is about the time parents spend with their children. I was a teacher for forty years, and one of the things that I’ve noticed is that children whose parents spend quality time with their children (e.g. reading with them, encouraging them to develop hobbies that they can share as well as hobbies that the child can call their own) tend to do better across the board in the education system. That doesn’t mean that they will automatically reach the highest academic levels but they happier and better adjusted individuals.
All the best,
Bob
Just for reference - this exact topic in the model railroad world has been published about (and overly hashed in forums and social media) every few years decades ago, and now every year or less with the advent of social media. You name the reason “why” and it’s been offered. Like most topics there are probably a wide variety of reasons each adding their own small part. As a dad of 2 (a 10 & 12yo) and in my later 40s both gaming and model railroading (I’m USA based hence “road” v “way”) have steadily moved further away from my financial and time abilities. Now I’m a MR guy since the age of 6 and a wargamer for a few years as a kid then retuned in my late 30s. Aka much more experience in MR world. I could always fashion a layout out of something for some money until the last decade or so. That was roughly the end of most pricing that wasn’t the GW gaming equivalent - and most manufacturers went that way - but the market (people) supported that. Now, like you mentioned Bob, lower (even poor) quality mr models can be expensive, and newer models come with so many bells and whistles (pun sorta intended) that to run them fully costs even more for the special control units. Many open source projects are trying help mitigate that, but they require modern electronics knowledge v old analogue learning.
ReplyDeleteIt’s exposures like your PW rules that has helped me find new, smaller but widely varied, manufactures and step away from the 3-4 mainstream lines I’d fallen into. Hopefully the model rail world will get the “same”.
As for the show - I had a brief stint helping one of the largest MRR shows in the US, occasionally the largest. It was 100% volunteer and had been 40+ years. Along with a changing structure of the hobby world, more internet - less in person society members, meant a drastic reduction of new blood. Groups like that are unneeded for what they were originally built for and most missed adjusting philosophies to becoming societies of linking like minded people instead of relying on being the “only place to learn to do it right”. I think game clubs have that down pat.
Orionstars,
DeleteThanks very much for your comments from ‘across the pond’. Coincidentally, I saw a YouTube video last night in which a US railroad modeller ‘announced’ that the hobby was all but dead in America, citing many of the reasons you do for its demise.
Pricing of hobby items in wargaming in particular and modelling in general seems to have outstripped inflation. Alright, they may be more detailed, but does that extra level of detail justify the seemingly huge hike in prices?
I follow a YouTuber who does all his railway modelling on a budget, and I’ve take my lead from him. My model railway is built on half of a wooden DIY wallpaper pasting table and other than the Kato track, everything has been bought second-hand or has used stuff that I had to hand.
Thank you for your kind words about my PW rules. Along with Neil Thomas’s rules and DBA/HOTT, they seem to have helped to meet a need … and it’s something that I think will be with us for some time to come. Many people want something that can set up, use, and put away in a limited amount of time and space.
All the best,
Bob